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Post by cheserasera on Apr 19, 2011 15:16:29 GMT 10
She is going to terminate the pregnancy otherwise, and we have been trying to have a child for years, so of course we all want to make this work. We want to be able to reassure her that it will work, but seem to be running into a few glitches:
1. She is in NSW and we are across state lines. (My husband could probably get a job and move to NSW a month before her due date.)
2. If we succeed in signing up with an agency in NSW from a distance then can she be pretty guaranteed of being able to pick us?
3. Or can we avoid an agency, and are there any alternate guardianship arrangements that can be made until the age of two or some such?
Thanks for any thoughts and experience as we had been looking into international adoption and are not well versed in domestic but want to be able to get back to her ASAP as to if this is feasible.
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Post by lilchookie on Apr 19, 2011 16:00:49 GMT 10
Unfortunately I do not believe your friend will just be able to place the baby with you. You would still have to be assessed and approved by the agency in the state you are in and no formal arrangement will be able to be made (apply to the court for an adoption order) until over a month after she has given birth and then there is still another month after that before it becomes official.
Are you in Victoria? if so contact the DHS Adoption and Permanent Care Team on 98436413 and discuss the situation with them. You will have to go through and agency as private adoption is illegal in Australia.
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Post by waiting on Apr 19, 2011 18:00:33 GMT 10
Tricky. I know my friend wanted to have twins and give me one, but it is not so easy....
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Post by goggly on Apr 19, 2011 18:16:22 GMT 10
Hi, what you are suggesting is classed as a private adoption. Can't see how you could do it even if you go the NSW. It takes about a year to get an assessment and it all has to go through the relevant state department as Lilchookie says.
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Post by goggly on Apr 19, 2011 18:59:45 GMT 10
Waiting I am not sure it is as simple as that. There are so many variables and so much counselling involved. I think the OP is actually asking if they can bypass the state and terrority department all together and organise it themselves.
Over the course of the pg the birth mum's wishes could change considerably and she may either change her mind or become more aware of adoption and what it involves. There are so many hurdles before the placement even happens!
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Post by lilchookie on Apr 19, 2011 19:28:58 GMT 10
I was just coming to reply, but goggly took the words right out of my mouth!
cheserasera - your friend could not be guaranteed the baby would go to you & I think from you OP that is the sort of answer you/she wants. I would encourage her to speak with an adoption counsellor before going through with her termination if this is her path of choice.
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Post by cheserasera on Apr 20, 2011 19:10:32 GMT 10
I've only just hit "refresh" and found all of your kind replies pop up! Thank you all for your thoughts on the matter, very frustrating, of course. Doesn't sound like there's a way to make it work, but I really appreciate everybody weighing in!
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Post by socialworker on Apr 21, 2011 21:21:59 GMT 10
As a social worker in this field, I would say that no, you cannot adopt your friend's baby. My first concern would be that she has not gone through the required counselling to be fully aware of the decision that she is making. As such, if it was a private arrangement - as a previous poster pointed out, this is illegal in Australia. There would be no legal recourse, and you would have no legal rights in relation to the child. If you tried to manipulate the system to be assessed and have your profile put forward, then that is doing the child a disservice - as put simply, you may not be the best family for that child.
I would suggest you contact the relevant authority in your state and discuss this with them.
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Post by cheserasera on Apr 22, 2011 1:38:37 GMT 10
Thanks very much for all your feedback, after talking to various agencies, it looks like an adoption is not possible for many reasons, but thank you for helping us to sort that out quickly to be able to let her know. We wish everyone the best with their respective journeys!
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Post by soopersally on Apr 22, 2011 16:29:27 GMT 10
I'm sorry that you arent able to offer this baby a home - seems crazy to think that you cant when it would mean that a baby could go to a home that is connected to it's mother
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Post by cheserasera on Apr 28, 2011 2:20:53 GMT 10
Thanks, yes, I agree. It doesn't really make any sense. She is terminating this week. Anyway, thanks for the support. It was worth a try.
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Post by lilchookie on Apr 28, 2011 10:30:59 GMT 10
I can see this would be very frstrating for you and a sad outcome that your friend is terminating. But also thank goodness we live in a time when she as a woman has the ability to make this decision, unlike times 40 - 50 years ago.
There definately are pros and cons for private adoption. While it seems straight forward, your friend is early in her pregnancy and wants to give the baby to you........there is just so much that can happen between now and after the baby is born and the adoption order is passed. All parties are very vulnerable.
Personally while it is very frustrating the amount of time we have to wait in this country for a child sometimes, I think in Australia we follow the best process. All parties are well protected and the best possible outcomes are achieved (I would think in most cases).
Good Luck cheserasera, if you continue on the local adoption or intercountry adoption journey : )
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Post by goggly on Apr 28, 2011 15:20:47 GMT 10
Too bad that it didn't work out cheserasera, but I also think that between now and then so much would have changed and it is better to have the heartache now than thinking it is going to be one way when it turns out the other for the next 10 months.
I think the "blind match" that Australia does is the best as well, although of course the lack of transparency in that matching process is not so great!
Good luck with whatever you decide to do after this.
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Post by socialworker on Apr 28, 2011 15:52:41 GMT 10
I'm sorry that the situation didn't work out in the way that you hoped - however, I do think the system that Australia has with no private adoption works very well. It makes things alot clearer, black and white and less open for manipulation overall. No system is ever perfect.
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Post by cheserasera on Apr 29, 2011 5:36:13 GMT 10
Yes, I can appreciate all these points, and it is perhaps wise to try to avoid disappointment in life, certainly I have not enjoyed that the fertility and subsequent adoption journey has been laden with disappointment. And I can appreciate a system that tries to protect my interests.
Yet the primary stated aim of the system is to protect the child's interests, which is as it should be. And I wonder if in cases such as this, that of course hardly make it to public conversation because they are private and short lived, that is really the effect. Because I can so clearly see right now some ways in which this might not be the case, perhaps I will offer it here as food for thought..
Is it really in the best interests of a child not to be born because the parent doesn't want to place their child in a relatively anonymous government system?
Or for their birth mother to not have much say in where the child is placed? Is this not infantilizing the birth mother on some level to argue that the state knows better than them where their child belongs? Arguably reasonable perhaps if the birth mother is under, say, 18, but seemingly unnecessary in the case of a full grown adult women with a rich life and community network.
And is it in the child's best interest to only know their birth parents when they turn 18? (I think studies thus far show that level of mystery might not be healthy for the psyche, and more open adoptions are better for mental health.)
And is it best for the child for the birth mother in this system to have to face the prospect of an almost total abandonment of their child at birth in order to make a choice to not have an abortion if they do not wish to? Again, studies have shown this (as well as an abortion) can have a long term impact on the psychological health of a woman. Should not the birth mother's mental health be protected as well in this regard? I will recover from my disappointment in this instance more quickly than she will "get over" EITHER an abortion OR the feeling she has given up her newborn child to a relative stranger immediately after birth.
Does facing that prospect, even if a birth mother decides to go ahead with a pregnancy (or it is too late to terminate) possibly reduce the birth mother's ability and willingness to attach to the child during pregnancy on any level and thus to take proper prenatal care during the pregnancy? Something we are increasingly realizing is key to the baby's ultimate health? Would these important and sometimes difficult behavioral changes be more easily motivated if the birth mother had a very real sense of where their child was going and that they had the option of some regular contact with their child?
Not easy questions, just questions.
For the record, I am most definitely pro-choice when it comes to abortion. I just do not think limiting options when it come to placing a baby should be a crucial factor in making that initial choice.
And again, really not hoping to start an argument here, just writing my perspective today to maybe shed some light on some of the grey areas and complexities of the system as it is. Of course no system can be perfect.
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Post by socialworker on Apr 29, 2011 7:38:54 GMT 10
I hope to be able to address some of your points.....and I can only answer from the perspective of a social worker in Victoria (I do not have experience in what other states do).
- Prior to giving the child up for adoption, the birth mother (and birth father if we are aware of who he is), must go through relinquishment counseling sessions, of which they are legally required to attend a minimum of 3. These sessions are very in depth and part is about the social history of the birth parents and baby. This information is the start of what we collect about the child when we start looking for families. During the sessions, we start to encourage the birth parents to think about what sort of family they want for their child, and other things, such as encouraging them to think of a name for the baby (alot of them do not realise that they have the right to name their baby - and when they do, I think this adds to the importance of the name.). A birth parent can only sign consent a minimum of 17 days after birth - provided they have had their 3 counselling sessions. After the birth, the baby typically goes into foster care until they are placed with their adoptive family. (At times, the baby is cared for for a period of time by its birth parents). Sometimes the birth parent does not wish to see the child, but more often than not, the birth parents spends time with their child following birth. The child is not immedatley handed to the adoptive parent, nor is the adoptive parents in the hospital - they have not been identified at this stage. - Once the birth parents have signed consent - they have a 28 day period that they can change their mind. This can be extended for another 14 days. If they do not change their mind - once the consent is legal, they are no loner the guardian for that child and have no legal rights over the child. The birth parents are encouraged to have regular access with the child during this period - for their benefit and the benefit of the child. We also start life story books at this time for the child. - Following the consent period passing, the birth family is presented with up to 4 non-identifying profiles of prospective adoptive families. These profiles are picked based on the birth parents wishes coupled with what are the known needs for the child (and by this stage, we have alot of information gained through the birth family and medical documents, and from the foster carer). - The birth parents make their decision and the successful family is notified. If the birth parent is not able to make a choice then a panel of professionals make the choice. - The birth parents are encouraged to meet with the adoptive family prior to the placement starting. - After placement, the birth parents have the option of seeing their child up to 4 times per year, with additional information exchange (letters and photos). This can be written into the Adoption order. We absolutely recognise the importance for the child to be able to get to know their birth family - it is crucial in the development of their identity. Teh adoptive parents legally have to abide by the access arrangement - sadly it is the birth family who often stop access having or just dont turn up. - All Victorian adoptions are now considered to be open - the child does not need to wait until they are 18 until they find out they are adopted. We sometimes struggle with adoptive parents not wanting to disclose to the child they are adopted (more likely when there is no access), and who want to hide it from the world. The adoptive parents are key in ensuring that an open adoption system works well.
You are right - the system is not perfect and no system dealing with the lives of people can be. It is a highly emotive system for everyone involved - particularly the birth parents, the child, and the adoptive parents. Approximately half of the individuals who have relinquishment counseling with proceed with adopting out the child - this speaks to the neutrality of the counsellors - we do not tell them what to do, we do not have to live with the decisions that they make. Adoption has a life long impact for all involved - the birth parents always will mourn the loss of their child, the child grieves for why they were given up, and the adoptive parents grieve for the loss of their fertility.
Hope this helps
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