|
Hi All
Apr 4, 2010 19:53:57 GMT 10
Post by pippie on Apr 4, 2010 19:53:57 GMT 10
My partner and I accepted two sibling permanent care children a few months ago - around 3 years afer we commenced our application. They are lovely children who have settled well but we are finding the legal side extremely challenging to say the least!
The birth mother is contesting permanent care and trying to regain custody of the children. We have already had one court case which was adjourned and we have another scheduled in about 5 months - an 8 day hearing! I look forward to relating our experiences and to hear from any of you who have experienced legal issues.
Also having been through the process am happy to discuss other issues.
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 4, 2010 20:07:29 GMT 10
Post by shudie on Apr 4, 2010 20:07:29 GMT 10
Hi Pippie,
Oh no, this must be so awful....
I am awaiting our PC panel.
What state are you in?
xx Shudie
|
|
Kay
Toddler
Mama through local adoption :)
Posts: 230
|
Hi All
Apr 4, 2010 20:28:24 GMT 10
Post by Kay on Apr 4, 2010 20:28:24 GMT 10
Hi pippie,
That is terrible. Have you agencue given you any guidence as to what to prepare for the hearing
Glad to hear the children are settling in though.
Cheers,
Louise
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 6, 2010 8:27:33 GMT 10
Post by waiting on Apr 6, 2010 8:27:33 GMT 10
Hi Pippie, I was quite saddened to read your post. It must be really difficult to actually be the parent of 2 young children which have been matched to you and then finding that the birth parents want them back. I can understand their plight, and can sympathise with them, but at the same time, these children were taken away from them because for one reason or another, they were not fit to look after them.
I understood, permanent care, was just that, permanent, because if it wasn't then it would be foster care and they would be returned once their situation was improved.
Do what you are doing to look after these kids that are in your care and be the best parent you can be. Let the legal representatives sort it all out for you. Just try to be positive and hopeful that that it will be sorted out soon.
Take care and all the best... Waiting.
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 6, 2010 21:04:08 GMT 10
Post by pippie on Apr 6, 2010 21:04:08 GMT 10
Hi Shudie
Thanks for your response - I am in Vic. Good luck with the panel and try not to worry about that - for us it turned out to be the easiest part of the process - just 2 questions and less than 5 minutes although we were expecting something like a job interview!
Pippie
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 6, 2010 21:13:03 GMT 10
Post by pippie on Apr 6, 2010 21:13:03 GMT 10
Hi Louise,
Not an easy situation but the agency is certainly helping - their top people are working on it although I think that legal issues should be covered during the application process - certainly I was shocked when our sw suggested that we may need or wish to have a lawyer to represent us - and that if we were not entitled to legal aid we would have to pay for the lawyer!
Pippie
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 6, 2010 21:20:04 GMT 10
Post by pippie on Apr 6, 2010 21:20:04 GMT 10
Hi Waiting,
Thanks for your very sensible advice...yes it is a difficult situation for everybody especially as it takes so long to resolve. I have discovered that the Permanent Care order can actually be challenged at any time in court by birth parents, although once a child has been with you for a reasonable time it is most unlikely that a challenge would be successful.
Best wishes, pippie
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 6, 2010 21:56:19 GMT 10
Post by waiting on Apr 6, 2010 21:56:19 GMT 10
hi Pippie, I am surprised that the orders can be challenged, but then I guess there needs to be some sort of hope that these parents can try to get their kids back if they think their situation has changed.
In reality, chances are that this is really not the case but it allows them an avenue to bring up their case and then maybe they can find some closure, knowing they tried and it did not work. Maybe it may be a way for them to get a reality check because hopefully it will come out in the proceedings that they really are not ready to be parents again. Maybe that may help them to get more help and move on with their life, and let the kids have a better life.
All the best and let us know how it goes. Welcome to the forum - flossy usually does that, but she is little busy these days...
waiting..
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 7, 2010 18:55:05 GMT 10
Post by chinababe on Apr 7, 2010 18:55:05 GMT 10
Pippe My heart breaks for you. My thoughts will be with you, your DP/DH and the children.
Waiting I will explain my understanding of PC and placement - Pippe or anyone else please correct me if I am wrong -
Often what happens is at the start of a PC placement the PC service (DHS/centrecare/etc) has custody or guardianship responsibilities. After about 2 years DHS makes an application for the legal/custody and guardianship to be moved to the PC parents. So after 2 years it is much harder for the birth family to petition the court.
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 7, 2010 19:49:03 GMT 10
Post by goggly on Apr 7, 2010 19:49:03 GMT 10
Oh pippie so sorry this is happening. I know a great lawyer who specifically deals with PC and adoption issues - if you are interested PM me.
What limited knowledge I have is in these cases they have to prove best interests of the child and apparently it is near on impossible once the kids have been with you for a while and are stable and happy.
The only grounds that the birth parents can challenge is that they were not given adequate time or resources to make their environment suitable for the kids to be returned.
Surely the SW should be able to provide more information on the particulars and if the child is still under guardianship, it should be the dhs lawyer representing you?
Also, with placement did the SW talk about legal risk? When we did our PC training they asked us to fill in a form about legal risk and what we were prepared to accept - medium, low or high. I certainly hope that your SW talked to you about this and has not just launched this on you now!
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 12, 2010 10:51:16 GMT 10
Post by pippie on Apr 12, 2010 10:51:16 GMT 10
Hi goggly - re lawyer - thanks for the offer, we are not using one at the moment but may get one once the hearing starts.
You are right that the decision should be made in the best interests of the children but the problem is people have differing views on what that might be and it is likely to depend on what magistrate we get.
I can't get into the details of the case but basically if birth parents can demonstrate that the reason for their child/children being taken away no longer applies then they have a chance of having them returned.
Best wishes, pippie
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 12, 2010 16:37:03 GMT 10
Post by waiting on Apr 12, 2010 16:37:03 GMT 10
Hey Pippie, I understand what you mean but they just put them in your care only recently, did they not check to see if these people were ready to have their children back then? The system is not working well, when it asks you to look after these children that it has matched to you and then allos these parents the right to challenge it once it has been sorted out.
It seems that someone is not doing their job well. Be patient, it will be sorted out..... Waiting.
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 13, 2010 16:13:57 GMT 10
Post by pippie on Apr 13, 2010 16:13:57 GMT 10
Hi waiting - absolutely agree - there is a problem with the system, pc should mean permanent! Children should not be sent to a 'forever' family until there is no chance of being sent back to the birth parents. Somebody did make an error in our case - the children were in a secure foster placement and there was no reason to move them quickly.
I would definitely recommend anyone who has been offered a child find out all they can from their sw about the legal situation. Also access visits. Our children are on once a week at the moment which is not good. It can be very challenging taking on a permanent care child and nobody needs the extra 'baggage' of court cases and high levels of access. When our case is over my DH and I are going to look into who we can talk to about our experiences with the pc system. We strongly feel that changes are needed. pippie
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 13, 2010 19:10:32 GMT 10
Post by goggly on Apr 13, 2010 19:10:32 GMT 10
Pippie this stinks of mis-management. On several occasions I have heard both my sw and others say that there would be no way they would move a foster placement to PC unless the visitations are reduced to the normal four times a year or slightly more (maybe six) as you can not expect to establish as a family if there is still such a high level of birth family involvement.
Thanks for the advice on PC. We did ask a lot of questions in the first instance and that's why our preference is still adoption. Of course with all of this is depends on who you ask. We have several different stories from SW so we are not ruling it out completely.
|
|
|
Hi All
Apr 14, 2010 11:44:46 GMT 10
Post by pippie on Apr 14, 2010 11:44:46 GMT 10
goggly - access for our children was scheduled to be reduced last October and then in March but due to unforseen circumstances it was not in October and due to mistakes in the presentation of the case the Magistrate immediately adjourned until August. To be fair we have received additional assistance - a sw/driver collects the children and takes them to Access and then brings them back - but such a high level of access still creates problems. I have met other pcs on weekly access so it is not just us! Our children will eventually have 6 access visits a year (assuming they are allowed to stay with us!) but the frequency is reduced in stages and it is likely to take a year or even more to get there.
Everyone's experience with pc will be different - we have 2 lovely children and if things work out we will hopefully be able to put the other stuff behind us. All I would suggest is that anyone offered a pc child ask lots of questions of their sw and be sure they know what they are getting into - its easy to be excited at being placed and overlook some major problem. Adoption would be good but I believe it is harder to get a placement - is that right? We did not apply for adoption but we were actually put forward for a child - but the birth parents were allowed to choose and they chose the other couple.
|
|
|
Hi All
Nov 23, 2010 9:11:56 GMT 10
Post by waiting on Nov 23, 2010 9:11:56 GMT 10
Just wondering Pippie if things have been sorted out on your end with the placement of the children. DO they stay or are the biological parents still wanting them back?
|
|