bee
Newbie
Posts: 2
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Post by bee on Nov 30, 2008 9:30:11 GMT 10
Hi there,
I'm in the very early stages of considering going down the adoption path. I'm 29 and DH is 34, we live in Melbourne. We've been together for 10 years, married for 6 of those years, own a big family home but just now need a family to fill it. We've been TTC for 2 years and have had 2 miscarriages this year.
I have heard so many different things about local adoption from 'don't bother its virtually impossible', to 'its easier than intercountry'... So basically I have no idea. Local adoption would be our preference I guess, financially anyway.
Also, I have a question about PC. I understand that the birth certificate doesn't change, what rights does this then give the biological parents? For example, say a few years down the track they sort their lives out and decide they want their child back. Can the child be removed from you? Would the biological parents have a case?
Also, I know its a broad question but roughly how long do both PC and adoption take from beginning to end?
Thanks Bee
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Post by Kim on Nov 30, 2008 13:08:29 GMT 10
Hi Bee, Both Inter-Country and Local adoption have good and bad points. My hubby and I started with Inter-Country and spent about 2 -3 years doing that and changed to Local adoption and have now spent about 2 - 3 years doing that. 2008 has been spent in limbo after being told that they were not going to even allow us to see a social worker, they then changed their minds and said if we did get counselling then they would review our application again. As for PC .. from what I understand, once you are made the legal Permanent Care parents of a child that child stays in your care until they are 18 years old. I dont believe that the birth parents can change their mind and have the child removed from your care. Of course other members here doing PC and those who are already PC parents could probably answer that for you better than I could.
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Post by car97 on Nov 30, 2008 15:55:24 GMT 10
Hi Bee I don't really have much knowledge to share with you as we are really just starting too- I just wanted to wish you all the best with whichever path you choose
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Post by goggly on Nov 30, 2008 20:47:16 GMT 10
We locally adopted two years ago - we were told not to bother, there are no babies, PC isn't permanent etc. In just under a year we were parents, so it does happen!
I am by no means an expert, but here's my experience:
There are babies available through local adoption. Generally these babies tend to go to younger parents. Having said that, our SW told us that before us, the last allocation she did was to a 47 and 45 year old, so it depends on what the birth mother is looking for and that is so variable. We were 32 and 38 when allocated and we were basically the youngest on the list but that had nothing to do with the birth mother's reasons for picking us!
Permanent is permanent. Once you have a guardianship order in place you have all the rights and responsibilities of that child. Remember, permanent care is an absolute last resort - it is never the first choice to break the tie between the bio parent and child.
In the 12 plus years our SW had been involved in PC she had only known of one child returned to the bio family - that was an older child (teenager) with truly exceptional circumstances.
Basically adoption and permanent care are the same with a couple of PC exceptions - can't change the legal name, no automatic inheritance rights, guardianship and custody as opposed to "natural" parental rights which you take on with an adoption (the birth certificate is re-issued in your name stating you as the parents).
I am not entirely sure about international adoption but I am sure someone else here can give you the heads up on where it is all at. All I know is that it is incredibly slow at the moment to allocate and all those waiting parents have the patience of a saint! I think it will take you about a year to 18 months just to get to education groups.
Grab as much information as you can, question everything, take all advice with a grain of salt (there is a lot of people with a lot of advice which is just plain wrong - or it was right in 1980!) and good luck. It is the scariest, most rewarding thing I have every done, she is the light of my life.
_________ Not flesh of my flesh Nor bone of my bone, But still miraculously my own. Never forget for a single minute, You didn't grow under my heart, But in it.
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Post by flossyinoz on Dec 1, 2008 12:19:49 GMT 10
Hi Bee, Welcome. Googly has summed it up nicely. Only one addition. You can change the last name in PC, noit easy but possible, one of our members has done it. What could be a problem is to get a passport for the PC child if the birth parents do not consent ( most would consent I am sure) as PC is a bit of a Victorian Law hybrid and at least for a passport application PC parents do not count as guardians.
Flossyinoz
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Post by kate on Dec 1, 2008 14:37:43 GMT 10
Officially, you still can not remove a PC child's surname. You can hyphenate it with your family name, but you can't replace their birth surname with yours. This is the official rules. I know one of the member's has managed to do it, but i wouldn't count on it.
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Post by chinababe on Dec 1, 2008 18:29:21 GMT 10
With ICA in victoria you will have about a 3 year + wait before your paperwork is even sent overseas. It is currently taking 2 years just to get to education classes......assessment takes place after this. Then you have to wait if your applying to a country with a quota restriction.........Korea and Thailand already sound like 2009 quotas are nearly full or are full.
Personally you're both young I would apply for LA.
We were really limited with our adoption country - due to age and religion (my DH is jewish).
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bee
Newbie
Posts: 2
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Post by bee on Dec 1, 2008 19:06:08 GMT 10
Thanks ever so much for the information and sharing your experiences with me guys. I have a much clearer picture of what PC is now and what the best option might be for us.
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Post by weemankelsey on Feb 23, 2009 21:54:32 GMT 10
Hi Goggly, Kate, Kim
Please be reassured, you can change the surname of your PC child, and yes it is 'official', and its not 'against the rules'. Believe me the Registry of Births Deaths and Marriages (who are the Gov. Dept assigned to oversee change of names - yours, mine, anybodys) gave our case a thorough examination, and the procedure we followed was totally upfront and in no way did we somehow 'manage to sneak one under the radar', if people are thinking as much.
I should stress that the new Birth Certificate we have for our (PC) son still does record his 'name at birth' surname on it. However the important part for us and him is that his 'Name at Birth' is no longer his legal 'current name'. His 'Current Name' is now the same as his parents and brother, and is now legally, officialy, 100% (!!) the name he uses for school registration, Medicare, Centrelink FTB claim etc etc etc.
When you are granted a PC Order by the court you become the childs legal guardian "to the exclusion of all others". This means you are given the parental responsibility for long term welfare of the child. As I mentioned in a previous entry, as PC parents if you think its in your childs best interests to have the same surname as the rest of their family/parents, then you can go ahead and do it.
Unfortunately many of the SW involved in the recruiting and assessment of PC parents are not aware of this. Like many others on our pre-application training days, we were told that we could not change our childs name without the birth parents consent. This is the wrong infromation. During the course of our discussions with BDM registry I spoke with a DHS Policy Officer for PC who confirmed our position was correct and contacted the BDM registry on our behalf. The crucial factor is being legal guardian. Unfortunately most SW in the DHS system also seem ignorant of this possibility also. I suspect from their perspective they spend such a great deal of effort trying to make dysfunctional families stay together rather than remove children from birth families, that they like to think there might always be a possibility that a child in an out of home care situation could be re-united with birth family.
re PC child being returned to birth families. As you say Goggly, it is technically possible for birth parents to challenge court order at any time, but the court at all times has to consider what is in the best interests of the child, and ,say , if a child had been in your family from a few months old until the age of 10 or 11 and then suddenly birth mother/father miraculously turns their life around (sorry for the harsh language, but the birth parents whose children end up in PC have really SERIOUS issues one way or another, if you know what I mean), the chances of a court deciding the child would be better off with them would be close to zero.
Good luck all with your applications. I think your poem Goggly sums up my feelings about my son beautifully. I didn't really believe I could have such powerful and overwhelming feelings for our 'brother from another mother', but it has been so wonderful to discover those feelings just get deeper and deeper with time.
cheers Dan
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Post by weemankelsey on Feb 23, 2009 22:06:41 GMT 10
Hi Kim
Me again, sorry forgot to mention, the key difference between Adoption and PC is that in Adoption the birth parent(s) have voluntarily' given up' their child for adoption. This is not the case in PC. In PC the placement is made regardless of the birth parent(s) position. Dept of Human Services Child Protection workers have deemed, for a variety of reasons, that it is not in the childs long term interests to live with the birth parents. Obviously this is a huge decision, and not one taken lightly in any way. But it is important to recognise that birth parents in PC situations, whilst they may be resigned to the situation, don't have the same experience of 'relinquishment' as do birth parents in Adoption.
Hope that makes some sort of sense! Dan
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Post by sallyg on Feb 24, 2009 9:45:38 GMT 10
Love your wisdom Dan!!!!
thanks for the updates / information. MOST informative.
Sal
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Post by flossyinoz on Feb 24, 2009 10:21:09 GMT 10
Dan, You are a walking legal book and if we ever get "our wee man or woman" I will most certainly draw on you expertise if we want to change the surname - thanks heaps for your contributions to this forum, but first things first in our case. Have you looked into the passport issue in the meantime, you said you also had relatives abroad? That is actually the one thing that would be most important to us, to still be able to travel with our child - nothing against Australia, but we are used to travel being for holidays or probably more important visiting our family in Europe and UK. Cheers Flossyinoz
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Post by sallyg on Feb 24, 2009 10:41:38 GMT 10
Good question Flossy! I'd like to know that too. And if you can get a passport how long can you go o/s for?
Also, with PC, do you have an ongoing case worker after the PC order has been granted? Or are you on your own like adoption?
Sal
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Post by goggly on Feb 24, 2009 19:28:07 GMT 10
Thanks for the information everyone - we are completing our PC education groups at the moment and I gotta say, its been long!
Very interesting about the legal name Dan, that wasn't how it was explained to us and something we were concerned about considering the first adoption, we don't want our kids to feel any different and I think a different name would do that.
I think we are going over passports at the last session, so if I find anything out, I'll report back.
How old was your little fellow at placement Dan? We will be restricted to a less than one year old because of the age of the first one so it could be a long wait. However, we are so excited about the prospect of being allocated again - after we complete the follow up interviews, medical, financial statement, updated life story etc etc etc!
Cross your fingers for us. DH is already sick of the paperwork, which he thinks must be just like the birth experience for pregnant women - you wouldn't do it again if you could remember how excruiating it is, but it is so worth it in the end!
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Post by chinababe on Feb 25, 2009 19:40:36 GMT 10
I've got to say Dan I think the ability to change the name is huge.
I was adopted by my Dad (step-father) at age 4 - nearly 5 (my birth father is deceased at just under 3 years). I've had his surname as my surname and my birth fathers surname as part of my first name - on my birth certificate. All my other documentation is in my birth father's name.
Because of the tightening of laws around passports I am no longer allowed to have both and because all my documentation is in my birth father's surname I just found it easier to change my birth certificate. This means I have lost my Dad's (step-father) surname and to be honest it is emotionally devastating at my age to deal with this. So much easier to deal with it all appropriately when children are little.
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Post by sallyg on Feb 26, 2009 8:27:55 GMT 10
Goggly, great to hear you're progressing! How soon after adopting were you able to proceed? Was it one year after the adoption order was granted? Sal
China, that must be a very hard situation for you - and complex, and emotional. good to hear your perspective
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