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Post by goggly on Jul 11, 2008 19:28:39 GMT 10
Please take this advice in the sharing spirit it is intended, but trying to get a passport for a LA child is a nightmare! We are eight months past supervision finished and still the paperwork has not gone through the courts, so still no passport.
We asked at about the six month placement mark about getting a passport as grandparents live o/s and there was a big family reunion coming up. We were flat out told not possible until after legalisation. 12 months later we still wait as the SW has not sent the paperwork back to our solicitor to get a court date. Meanwhile we get a lot of family pressure to show off our "baby".
I really wish that the Adoptive and Permanent Care Families Association was still up and running as we need advice as to what our next steps are. We can't put our names back on the LA list or attend PC training until the first little one is legalised and the department are in no hurry.
Sorry this has turned into a rant, but make sure that you are really clear on the passport arrangements if it is needed as it can get really frustrating.
Flossy, also wanted to say congratulations on getting approved! It is the loveliest time, finally a chance to dream about your future child!
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Post by weemankelsey on Jul 11, 2008 22:03:24 GMT 10
Hi Sal, Flossyinoz and other guys,
Thanks for the welcome! Interesting to hear that the advice to prospective PC parents is still that you are not able to change your childs name. Thats not strictly speaking true though. It is possible to go to BDM resgistry once you have the permanent care order itself (which is usually some time after initial placement because the child has to have been out of their birth parents care for atleast six months) and file for a change of name. If you have got the consent of the birth parent (unlikely, but possible; I know of at least one person who has done so) then the granting of a change of name is straightforward. The problem comes if you have been unable to get consent. The legislation governing permanent care orders is from the Children, Youth and Families Act 2005 and specifically sections 319-321 (don't stress about that, I only found out a few weeks ago!). This Act is a Victoria State Act ( don't think they have pc in other states?) A pc order is only made if the person(s) to whom it is granted is "....willing and able to assume responsibility for the permanent care of the child by having custody and guardianship of the child" (s319 (1) (d)). And a pc order "..grants custody and guardianship of the child to the person(s) named in the order..to the exclusion of all others" (s 321). Note, - To the exclusion of all others [/i] Once a pc order is made, neither the birth parents, the DHS, or any other organisation has any right of custody or guardianship over the child. You, as the 'actual' parents, do. Our advice is that because we as pc parents have custody and guardianship, then to argue that a change of name is in the best long term interest of the child (especially when there are siblings with difFerent names around) is relatively straight forward. Unfortunately the bureacrats at the BDM Registry are not as atuned to what pc is as the people who've actually been through it. I get the impression thE BDM Registry sees pc as simply 'long term foster care' which of course is a fundamentally different situation. for this reason the BDM have insisted to us that we demonstrate consent of the birth parent, or demonstrate tHat we have tried to contact them and failed. Our view (me and my partner) is that we have 'parental responsibility' (a term used in the Federal Family Law Act) and we know whats best for our son, and therefore should be allowed to change his surname to that of his brother. I spoke with DHS Senior Policy Advisor at DHS Lonsdale St office and she was in agreeance that custody and guardianship gives us the right to apply for registration of a change of name.
We will keep you posted as to how we go, we are seeking furtHer legal advice before the next step.
It may be (as flossyinoz? said) that we have to go to Court (not the Childrens Court where the PC order was made, but the Federal Family Court I think) to get an order that says 'these people have custody and guardianship, therefore dear BDM registry let them change their childs surname please!' ( or something like that).
As someone else said, change of name, automatic right of inheritance and signing for a passport (haven't crosed that bridge yet!) are the only three areas where pc differs from adoption at present. When the time is right to tell people about how our youngest joined our family, I usually now say he was adopted, cos everyone understands what this means. Initially we used to tell people about pc, but we found many peole got rely confused, assumed the birth parents might one day come to 'take him back' and it got us in to all sorts of emotional knots that we hadn't expected (like people not really seeing you as his parents). If it comes up much better to say he is adopted, then most people have an idea about that. Also, now that I'm thinking about it, another thing we wished we hadn't done was tell some friends about the birth family background, by way of explanation. We found that this led in one case to much too much interest and assumptions being made about our little one. They wanted to know his birth name, about any birth siblings etc etc. If we are successful again (been waiting since January for pc child no. 2!) we definately would keep things a lot more private and be highly selective about who we told what too. Always easy in hind sight eh!
Apologies for long-winded post. Once again, its a long road to take, but its well worth it eventually!
all the best Dan
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Post by chinababe on Jul 12, 2008 10:33:51 GMT 10
Dan I am so glad that you are here to share your knowledge with us!
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Post by goggly on Jul 12, 2008 11:45:40 GMT 10
Hi Dan,
Thanks so much for that information and welcome! We too learnt the hard way about too much info on our LA child and the negative assumptions being made. Luckily it was very soon in the placement and we haven't made the mistake since.
We now say that it is her story to tell, not ours to interpret, which seems to stop any further intrusive questioning. I think with so much mis-information around about the LA and PC programs ("all those children are damaged" "you will never get placed" etc etc) people find it hard to believe when this perfect little person joins your family.
Good luck with the name change. You may have some luck writing to the DHS secretary for clarification if you get no joy with BDM as she has overarching power over PC and LA programs.
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Post by sallyg on Jul 12, 2008 17:09:19 GMT 10
Well Dan, it may well be that you're the trailblazer here!!!
Good luck with changing your son's surname. And do keep us posted.
I too have been wondering how much we would want to reveal about BF details (should we ever get a child!), and except in very necessary cases I think we'd prefer not to say much at all. Once said things can't be 'unsaid'.
Dan, we were told there are quite a few PC children waiting families (80 or so) - do you know if this is true? I assume it's mostly older children and large sibling groups. Can I ask what your criteria is? Would you like another infant like your DS was?
Goggly, that sounds very frustrating for you! So is the adoption order through or is that what you're waiting on your SW for?
Sal
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Post by flossyinoz on Jul 14, 2008 11:07:22 GMT 10
Hi all,
Well I am really happy that we have some experienced parents here in LA and PC, looks like both avenues are plastered with red tape. And Googly, thanks for the congratulations for our approval but they are a bit premature, we are still waiting for the report and the panel, but at least we seem to be of one opinion with the social workers now. Fingers crossed.
Dan, please let us know about your experience with name change and when you are talking to a solicitor anyway I would be grateful if you could also raise the issue of passport, which I and I think some other people here see as the major issue due to relative overseas.
Do you work in the legal area as you seem to be quite familiar with laws or does this come from research?
As I put in my other threads about differences in pc in NSW and Victoria, though Victoria has tried with state law to initiate the right thing, transfer of custody and guardianship to the pc parent, this does not seem to be acknowledged by federal courts or agencies and that is where all the problems stem from.
I think the only solution in the long run would be if the family court, a federal court would grant the pc order, then passport and name office would have to comply.
Good luck with everything and you are quite brave to undertake this, but I am sure this is for the good of your son's identilty. Good luck with no 2 as well!
Flossyinoz
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Post by weemankelsey on Aug 1, 2008 22:18:16 GMT 10
Hi guys
Yay! Well just thought I'd let you know that a couple of days ago our sons 'change of name' Birth Certificate arrived! He is now the proud bearer of our family surname, and the first thing I did was to go down and enrol him at his brothers school for next year. A very happy moment it was to get the change through, especially given that we were led to understand this was not possible without birth parents consent. It turns out that this is not the case; if you have a PC order then you are the childs legal guardian, and you have the right to apply for a change of name. After our initial visit to the BDM office I had a further look at the BDM Act and at the Child Youth and Families Act (that covers PC) and had some advice off a guy called Jim Poulter, a lecturer in Social Policy (at Monash I think), who knows all about PC and Adoption as he has children through both these avenues. I also spoke with a Senior Policy Advisor in DHS Head Office whose brief includes PC orders, who agreed that the PC order entitled us, as parents, to apply for a change of name. Any way, I ended up writing a long letter to BDM explaining exactly what PC was, how our son knew no other parents etc (without downplaying the fact that we still have ongoing access visits) and how as we had legal parental responsibility which means we have responsibility for his long-term welfare, that we had decided to change his name was in his best long term interest. Also mentioned in the letter that we'd make a Ministerial Complaint or complaint to the Ombudsmnan if there was no positive outcome (that was Jim's idea!). Funnily enough the next time we attended the BDM office with PC order and long letter in hand, this time the person at front desk said 'oh, you're the legal guardians so there should be no problem', which was a very different, and very welcome, approach to the first time. We then lodged the paperwork and waited for the 'change of name' team to process it. A week or so later I got a phone call off the Team Leader of the change of name team who apologised for our shabby initial treatment and reassured me that there would be no problem with the certificate. And then shortly after this the new certificate arrived, halelujah! It seems that it realy is the case that parents of a PC child can doa change of name without needing the consent of the brith parents, because the PC parents have assumed responsibility for the long-term welfare of their child. Unfortunately not all BDM staff, or DHS staff are aware of this (i was informed in May by a Adoption and Permanent care worker at Coburg DHS that there was no way that a PC parent could apply for change of name with out consent of birth parents. Think I 'll ring them up actualy to tell them they're giving out the wrong information!)
The actual Birth Certificate itself still has our son's name at birth, and his birth mothers name on it. We are not mentioned, but his new name ('current name' it says is now) at the top, and is now his legal name. We can now get his Medicare, Centrelink etc details changed over. We are rapt.
I would be happy to pass on a copy of the letter we wrote to BDM (minus identifying info) if it would be of any use to anyone, via my email address. I haven't attempted anything about a passport yet, although like some others my folks are overseas and would love for us to visit them when we can.
Hope this info is useful for you. All the best of luck to everyone who's waiting on a child to join their family. Anyone who goes down the Adoption or PC path has well and truly earned any luck that comes their way!
all the best Dan
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Post by chinababe on Aug 2, 2008 8:54:03 GMT 10
Dan this is wonderful news. I am sure you will be a guiding light for many PC parents and children.
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Post by flossyinoz on Aug 4, 2008 10:39:31 GMT 10
Dan, This is absolutely great and such a big step foreward. Well done! I would love to have a copy of the letter you sent for future reference. Please pm me either if you can the letter or pm me the email address you would like to use to send it and I give you mine. Cheers
Flossyinoz
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